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EdP
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 481
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 Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:37 am Subject: A question of cuffs |
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So I’m looking at the possibility of getting a new pair of speed skates after trying on Shona’s Semi Race Bonts which, despite being a couple of sizes too small practically made love to my feet like no other skate ever has (and I need new wheels, frames and bearings anyway, so the added expense isn’t as huge as it would otherwise be).
My questions is – would I be making a huge mistake in going for the semi race – they weigh the same as my power slides anyway- and the cuff will make them much more fun for marshaling/route checks /suicide skates that fill those dark winter months.
What are the disadvantages of that extra ¾ of an inch added to the height cuff when compared to say, the jets? |
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Barrie
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 1338
Location: Putney
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:28 am Subject: |
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| IIRC they have (had?) more padding too, 6mm vs 2mm or something like that. |
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ed!
Committee Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 4168
Location: E R, London
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:31 am Subject: Re: A question of cuffs |
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LOL - maybe I need new skates too...mine don't make love to my feet, there's not even any flirting :(
Out of interest, is there anything wrong with your current skates? Do you intend to keep using them? Bear in mind that if you buy the Bonts, the frame won't be compatible with your current skates (I'm not sure if there is a 2-point version).
I also think that the Jets offer more ankle support than people think - I think the cuff is also slightly higher than most speedboots too.
Some people (Tom, Tanya, Mike, Duracell, Sparky and myself to name a few) use their speedskates for the other fun activities you've mentioned, especially given that the suicide skates these days are not as demanding in manoeuvrability as a few years ago. In any case, would your S3 + long frame combination fit the bill?
Take a look at this topic:
http://www.londonspeedskaters.com/forums/proper-speed-skates-vs-pilot-pros-with-100s--t2831.php?
Xia's post is particularly good at highlighting pros & cons of semi-race type skates to answer your last question. So it all depends on how you want to progress your skating, and the type of skating you want to do.
I think that speed skates will allow you to better develop your technique and ankle strength as you will have less restrictions or support around your ankle (e.g. you can bend more at the ankle, have greater awareness of edges). Semi-race skates will still allow room for technique development over regular recreational skates whilst maintaining comfort, but just not to the same extent as speed skates.
What size are you? I have a pair of Bont Alpha's, size 42 that were given to me. I wanted to use them for street skating, but after a couple of tries, they are just a bit on the small size. You're welcome to give them a go - they take 90mm wheels with a 3-point mounting. Unfortunately, I don't think that the boot will not support a 3-point 100mm + frames as the mounting point spaces are slightly different :( |
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EdP
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:30 am Subject: Re: A question of cuffs |
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| ed! wrote: |
LOL - maybe I need new skates too...mine don't make love to my feet, there's not even any flirting 
Out of interest, is there anything wrong with your current skates? Do you intend to keep using them? Bear in mind that if you buy the Bonts, the frame won't be compatible with your current skates (I'm not sure if there is a 2-point version).
I also think that the Jets offer more ankle support than people think - I think the cuff is also slightly higher than most speedboots too.
Some people (Tom, Tanya, Mike, Duracell, Sparky and myself to name a few) use their speedskates for the other fun activities you've mentioned, especially given that the suicide skates these days are not as demanding in manoeuvrability as a few years ago. In any case, would your S3 + long frame combination fit the bill?
Take a look at this topic:
http://www.londonspeedskaters.com/forums/proper-speed-skates-vs-pilot-pros-with-100s--t2831.php?
Xia's post is particularly good at highlighting pros & cons of semi-race type skates to answer your last question. So it all depends on how you want to progress your skating, and the type of skating you want to do.
I think that speed skates will allow you to better develop your technique and ankle strength as you will have less restrictions or support around your ankle (e.g. you can bend more at the ankle, have greater awareness of edges). Semi-race skates will still allow room for technique development over regular recreational skates whilst maintaining comfort, but just not to the same extent as speed skates.
What size are you? I have a pair of Bont Alpha's, size 42 that were given to me. I wanted to use them for street skating, but after a couple of tries, they are just a bit on the small size. You're welcome to give them a go - they take 90mm wheels with a 3-point mounting. Unfortunately, I don't think that the boot will not support a 3-point 100mm + frames as the mounting point spaces are slightly different |
They just hurt a lot - they're either too loose (and give me hellish blisters) or agonizingly tight. I literally couldn't walk after Goodwood for an hour. The deck height on the dual mount frame is also silly - more than I'd have with 110 mm wheels. The jets do look like they have more ankle support - I'll consider a pair of those as well.
Ed - at your level is there much difference in your technique when using your your black bonts and the alphas. |
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EdP
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:40 am Subject: |
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| Barrie wrote: |
| IIRC they have (had?) more padding too, 6mm vs 2mm or something like that. |
Again that would massively help me to marshal on them. It would be advantageous for me to love to marshal in any skate because I could get in and extra 20+ miles of technique work each week - providing that it was possible to get the right technique with that added cuff. |
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Glenn
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 1082
Location: ST Pauls
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:49 am Subject: |
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Like Ed said, depends what you're interested in; if you really want to learn to good technique then eventually you'll need to learn to use speedskates as you won't be able to bend your ankles enough with semi-race.
This article explains why it's important to get the right bend in both knees and ankles:
http://www.inlineplanet.com/2007-12/lowdown.html |
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ed!
Committee Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 4168
Location: E R, London
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:15 pm Subject: |
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| EdP wrote: |
They just hurt a lot - they're either too loose (and give me hellish blisters) or agonizingly tight. I literally couldn't walk after Goodwood for an hour. The deck height on the dual mount frame is also silly - more than I'd have with 110 mm wheels. The jets do look like they have more ankle support - I'll consider a pair of those as well.
Ed - at your level is there much difference in your technique when using your your black bonts and the alphas. |
The Goodwood (and Hillingdon - LIM) surface does give a lot of feedback from vibrations - so if you're on hard wheels, then it will feel a bit rough afterwards. I opted for softer wheels in both cases (Matter whites), but still had some numbness afterwards.
I agree about the deck heights of a lot of the the 110mm 2 point skates, which is why I've stuck to Bonts. Fred has 2-point 3*110mm + 1*110mm frames that enable a lower deck height, so that's another option.
In terms of boot fit, there are certain things you can do to improve comfort, but if the underlining boot is wrong, then it might be that it's not right for you. Where are the boots loose or tight?
In my Bonts, I feel that I have a lot of room around the top of my ankle, so you might see me repeatedly retying my boot laces from time to time. Developing stronger edging muscles and ankle strength rather than opting for something with more support is the way I'm looking to address this.
I didn't skate long enough in the Alphas (literally seconds) to adapt any sort of technique. As mentioned yesterday, I come from a street-skating background and on the rare occasions you'll see me on my "normal" skates, my technique is actually quite different (high cadence, more upright, double pushing/steering  ).
I find that marshaling the street skates in speedskates are primarily good for awareness-related skating, i.e. people, hazards, short striding etc. It's also good for accelerations from a standing start.
Using it for anything else speed related, and you either become a danger to yourself / others (long strides clash with skaters, not being able to stop / slow effectively) or hinders marshaling responsibilities (you fly past unblocked junctions, or worse, into oncoming traffic!). |
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EdP
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:42 pm Subject: |
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Cheers Ed! I think I'm close to being persuaded to opt for the Jets but I'm going to put in a few laps on Tatem on Shona's semi race before I decide.
Either way I'm going to buy newer, more comfortable speed skates when I get back from Berlin. |
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ed!
Committee Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 4168
Location: E R, London
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:52 pm Subject: |
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What size are you? You're welcome to try the Alphas, which aren't a million miles off the semi-race.
Ben managed an 8.25min average on his @ Le Mans, which goes to show that you don't need speed skates to be fast, though I'd say he'd be faster on speed skates given time to work on technique  |
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EdP
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:57 pm Subject: |
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| ed! wrote: |
What size are you? You're welcome to try the Alphas, which aren't a million miles off the semi-race.
Ben managed an 8.25min average on his @ Le Mans, which goes to show that you don't need speed skates to be fast, though I'd say he'd be faster on speed skates given time to work on technique |
I'm a 42 - as I can get Shona's semi race on my feet I think I may as well just have a potter in those though and save you the hassle. |
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EdP
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:04 pm Subject: |
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| After some deliberation I think that a semi-custom Bont Cheetah might do the trick. More cuff than the Jets (and my C4s), but less than the Semi - do you guys order from http://www.inlineskatesrus.com ? |
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Speedy Dave
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 249
Location: Derby
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:13 pm Subject: |
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Order before 8th September online at bont.com and get 15% off.
Just put 'newshop' in the discount bit on checkout.
If you order after I can get them for you. |
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ed!
Committee Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 4168
Location: E R, London
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:41 pm Subject: |
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http://www.londonspeedskaters.com/forums/Bont-sales-through-Glenn-Koshi--t4043.php
I would recommend getting them through glenn, who used to work for Bont. His service is top notch - feel free to mention me.
If you ask about the discount on the bont site, he might be able to sort you out with something.
Why semi-custom? Have you read about it to ensure that whatever fitting problems you have, semi-customising them will help? |
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EdP
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 481
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:56 pm Subject: |
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In touch with Glenn via email now - thanks for the tip.
I'm looking at semi custom because its only an extra $30 and will hopefully help sort out my skinny ankles (they can add foam and change the cut of the tongue to let them lace up lighter at the top) and my differently sized feet (they can ship me the right size for each foot). My feet are also a bit on the thin side which they can supposedly account for. Sorting all three of those things seems worth it right?
Will ask about the Bont shop discount as well! - cheers for the tip. |
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