LondonSkaters Speed Team - Speed Skating & Rollerblading Club in London

Rick · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 5914

You can do it on the day I think. 'Tis cheating a bit though Wink

Go to the experts in speed webite and practice your german. It's 20€ to get on a line.

Duracell · Plan for Friday 24.09.04:

merten · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:26 pm Subject:

Duracell · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:34 pm Subject:

Will they move us up starting blocks with the pace-line groups?
If they do, then that plus a t-shirt is worth 20 euros to me! Very Happy

Rick · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 5914

Hans and Mike did it last year. Naturallly everyone that skates together starts together. I think you get moved up further than the time block.

Mikey-two-Names · Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4107

Rick · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 5914

Because it's not proper racing. You are not responsible for finding the paceline to suit your ability or to reach your target. Someone is doing it for you. It takes the tactics out of it which is actually a large part of the race.

Having a pacer is really considered cheating by quite few athletes, such as when Paula Radcliffe used male pace runners to break the womens marathon record or Roger Bannister used Chris Brashier and the other bloke who were 1/2 mile specialists to break the 4 minute mile. Both of those caused a it of an uproar. So basically it isn't in the spirit of competition and therefore cheating. However, you are still doing the distance, so I called it cheating a bit.

It's more like training when you are going out to do a specific exercise.

Mikey-two-Names · Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4107

Tactics, don't make us laugh! There's very little in the way of tactics at our level in Berlin, it's not as though it's hard to find a paceline at whatever speed you choose.

The only real benefits to most of us with Sebby's lines is that you can get moved up to an appropriate block and thus not have to waste time dodging gumbie skaters. The drafting issue isn't any different from skating in a team, except that you'd be better in a team since team mates are more likely to work together well. There Sebby is providing, or rather making instant teams for those that don't have their own. It sounds a bit like you're saying racing as a team is not in the spirit of competition?

Rick · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 5914

There's a difference in top level tactics and tactics at our levels. It's not about sprinting for the front line, making attacks and breaking lines down and having a big finish. It's about learning how to race, getting past people and picking the right line, changing lines when an appropriate opportunity presents itself. Basically working for it. Otherwise you might as well find yourself a nice flat bit of road for 42.2km and get someone to drive a car at 35kph or whatever and sit behind it as say you did a marathon in 1h20m. No you didn't you did a marathon distance skate in that time. In this case you are doing a marathon distance skate at the same time a marathon is taking place. If you are racing for yourself, there's still a lot of brainwork that goes into it. You may prefer the word strategy to tactics. In a team you decide on how to skate the race, but if a better opportunity presents itself then you adapt to what is going on around you. You do not race in controlled condition.

Not quite like that as they do say you will be expected to take your turn at the front (so even more like training then) In a race tactically that is something you should be trying to avoid. I use skaters that are fitter/faster than me to get me round. If I go to the front, they slow down and I get tired too quickly. I have to find a line at the right pace and skate in a position where I am not likely to go to the front and not going to fall into the slow group if the line splits. All with people who's language I don't speak.

I'm also not saying that I'm never going to do it. One day for I fall apart completely I want to do have a new PB and I want it to be below 1h30m. If I can't get it through trying to do it myself then I am quite prepared to cheat a bit.

Michi · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 658 Location: Hamburg

I agree with you Rick. One main reason for me to do the marathon Hannover - Celle on September 11th is to get a reference time for Berlin. I think it is not fair that the people who cannot provide such a time just buy their good starting position. Facing everybody else who tried to get a good time beforehand this seems not fair to me.

Merten once asked me if I want him to wait for me in Hannover so that I can draft him. This is no possibility for me because I want to say at the end of the race that I have done and succeeded on my own.
I think when you start in a big race it is quite normal that you have to get past the slow skaters at the beginning (not that I have any experience with this Wink

). But for me every time I get past a paceline of slower skaters my ego feels good.

So basically I prefer beeing a little bit slower at the end but do it on my own.

Cheers
Michi

Mikey-two-Names · Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4107

Berlin is exactly like drafting a car, since there are thousands and thousands of skaters, so there's no difficulty in finding a paceline at any pace you care to go at. Using your logic, you may as well say that when you skated the Berlin marathon you didn't really do a proper race.

It's bad etiquette to not take a regular turn at the front during most of the race. That's wheelsucking, and is usually frowned upon. At the same time it's foolish not to use drafting. This is a drafting sport after all.

If LSST had some closely matched skaters that worked together as a team paceline, that would also be cheating by your logic.

Michi · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 658 Location: Hamburg

Mikey-two-Names · Joined: 24 Feb 2004 Posts: 4107

LOL! That decision is exactly the same decision you make in any marathon, and nothing to do with Sebby's setup. It's the question of is this paceline fast enough,too fast, or just right for me?

If you choose too fast a paceline for your ability you'll be dropped sooner or later, be it Sebby's paceline or an arbitrary paceline you've jumped onto. None of them care, and they're not going to wait. Your team mates in LSST however, might well wait, which gives real teams more of an advantage.

Michi · Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 658 Location: Hamburg