LondonSkaters Speed Team - Speed Skating & Rollerblading Club in London

ed! · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:18 pm Subject: Which Speed Skates (4 or 5 wheels)?

Hello all!

I've been reading this forum on off for a while (I'm a permanent resident of SR.com) and feel it's now time for a post Smile

In the build up to my first ever Le Mans, I've been 'training' on a pair of customised Twister boots fitted with the Salomon 320 down hill frame. I'm trying to skate with loosened cuffs in an attempt to mimick certain aspects of a speed boot, although I can already see that's going to be some work!

Having got some taste for going that little bit faster, I was thinking about stepping up to something a bit more appropriate.

Are there any guides for buying speed skates, more specifically, the pros and cons of 4 over 5 wheelers. I'm a bit bemused as to why people go for one or the other although I remember someone mentioning that 4 wheeled ones (with bigger wheels) require more ankle strength.

Thanks,

ed!

Rick · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 5914

Ones with bigger wheels tend to be higher. The result of this is as they go on edge they apply more leverage to your ankle. Of course you shouldn't be going on edge with your weight straight down you should be pushing straight dow your leg. However, it is inevitable that when you get tired that you will find it harder to stay centred. So yes you do ned more ankle strength, but using them enough will develop that quite quickly.

There are so many changes to frames and wheels sizes that I don't think the answer is definitive. 4 or 5 years ago, nearly everyone on the speed scene was on 5* 80mm and 5* 84s were coming out and people were winning on them. I think the opinion was bigger is better so 3 years ago 100s started to appear first 3* 100 with 1*80 in the second wheel positon, then 4* 100. Then 5* 88 were tried by Bont last year. now 5* 90s are with us. People who win tend to be just good skaters who would be fast on whatever their sponsor told them to wear. Not enough real evidence out there to say it the skates are faster or not. Manufacturers make claims but records are not being continually broken with every "advance" so it is really hard to say.

I ride 5*84 and 4*100 and the differences to me are that the 5* 84 is a much easier frame to ride and is smoother on a rough surface than 4 wheels despite their extra size. The 4* 100s feel like they have a higher top speed though I haven't measured it and seem much faster downhill where I am more likely to reach terminal velocity. However, as Alex can attest I am much faster downhill on 4*84 than he is on 4*100 so that probably doesn't mean anything.

Not helping much am I. Okay here's my recommendation. Get a complete package speed skate rather than mix and match for your first time out but as with all skates make sure the boot fits. Getting anything more is a very expensive mistake to make if you aren't going to keep on speed skating, so you'll probably start off with 5*80s. When you get used to the skates, borrow some different frames off other people to see what you think before buying the more exotic stuff.

Xia · Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Posts: 874 Location: Geneva (Suisse)

5 wheels easier to find on the use market, so worth it if you are looking for bargains
4 big wheels, more up to date, not sure if there is a big difference for people like me (I have a set of 4x100 fitness skates)

From what I read the supposed advantage of big wheels comes from less rolling resitance and more momentum at high speed. Speeds that the comon of mortal can't reach anyway =)

My percieved gain was in confort, 4x100 compared to 4x80 was more comfy on crap surfaces (ie london roads.)

PS-if you are looking for a set of skates to just go faster without really going for speed training, ignore speed skates and just buy some fitness speed oriented skates. (Loads of them on the market 4x100, 4x90, 5x84,...).
The time you will gain by not having blister and a sore ankle after 1 lap at lemans will offset any minimal loss of time by not having speed skates by miles.

If you are serious about getting proper speed skates, then I'm not qualified to answer =)

dan_b · Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Posts: 2428

When I started looking into this I found that there are also two-possibly-three standards for how the frame fits onto the boot: once upon a time everyone had 165mm spacing, but 4x100 wheels throw a spanner into that (because one of the wheels would be below one of the bolts, I think). So if you want 4x100 you need a boot that takes frames with 190 or 195mm spacing - I think that there are usually enough mounting holes in the boot that the same boot will do for both - or you need a frame with a bigger gap between first and second wheel than between the other wheels. Or something.

TBH, having seen the state of people's ankles at Goodwood I'm thinking about sticking with rec skates until I can afford/justify a custom moulded boot. Maybe by then it'll be more obvious what the right answer is anyway.

ed! · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:26 pm Subject:

Thanks for the response. TBH, four wheeled skates look more appealing than the five wheeled ones, but of course, that's from a more superficial point of view. Smile

I did the Eddy Matzger course last year (not that qualifies me for anything other than being able to say that I did it) and I've attended a handful of Mike's classes. In those, I've managed to pick up the theory behind the techniques and in turn I make a conscious effor to apply them during general skating. I'd be more inclined to work on this and join in some of the training rather than opt for general fitness skates (I assume these to be skates such as Pilot 9s?)

I don't intend to get any speed skates for Le Mans, I'm quite happy to give it a go on my current skates. Although I already anticipate coming back wanting to improve on speed, efficiency and technique.

I guess my next set of questions would be:

- Where's the best place to get 5 wheelers from?
- Are there any recommendations of models for someone who is a Salomon FSK size 10 (shoe size 9) with wide feet. ?
- Is it advisable to try on other skater's skates, or does the fitting tend to be more personal to the owner?

KateB · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:45 pm Subject:

I skate in one of 3 pairs of skates:
4*80 FSKs
4*84 salomon ivy's (fitness)
5*84 powerslide R2's (speed)

Bigger wheels have more momentum at a certain speed. Therefore, once you are up to speed, it's easier to keep there and push for a little more.
However, getting up to speed requires extra energy, and this also applies to steeper hills.

Wallet attack (aka skate attack) have quite a good range of boots, so worth a visit to use as a try-on, but once you know what you want you can usually get a better deal from one of the sponsored teams, or visiting Europe (e.g. I bought my R2's in Amsterdam for the price SA ask for R3's)

Re: the right boots & blistered / rubbed ankles.
I thoroughly agree with Rick that finding a pair of boots that fit is critical for your first pair - I tried on Farhana's and Natasha's in the past, and found both of them crippling round the ankle bone and across the ball of my foot. Powerslide have a wider boot shape, and the ankle is cut for a slightly higher ankle bone.
For blisters - I had 5 after last week's EddyM course, so I went back to my hiking days and got some "Zinc Oxide tape". I applied it to all likely points (ankle bones & achilles), and have no sign of blisters from goodwood. It's basically an extra tough/thin fabric plaster tape, with extra sticky adhesive, so it acts like a temporary layer of very tough skin. Thoroughly recommended - I got mine from Superdrug.

KateB

Rick · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 5914

peterc · Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 1284 Location: M3 somewhere

Hi Ed, strange to see you here, but then again having seen what's on your feet I'm sure it was only a matter of time.

My Bonts, (well Rick then my old Bonts) are currently up in London, you could give them a try for for a bit, just to see how speed skates feel, (the support rather than the comfort.)

As a nice person has lent me a 5*84 my 5*80 is going spare too.

I'll try and work out how to get you a set up you can try.

Hans is selling a RAPs boot too, with a 5*84 frame so he may be worth a chat as well.

I'm looking at the frame question myself too.
I've been on a 5*80, which is nice and low (so easy) shortish, quick up the hills and nice indoors.
I've just got hold of a 5*84 I'll try this weekend, (thanks Ray) which I hope to do great things in.
I've tried a short (so needs special boot with longer bolt spacing) 4*100 (Thanks Tom) and it was nice, rolled well, and while you felt a bit unstable it was easy to get off the line and stear with short wheel base.

My choise, when I make it will be between a longer 4*100 or a 5*84, I've been put off in the past by 100mm wheel price, I think that is going to change soon. Smile

Give me a nudge on the boots and I'll see what I can come up with.

ed! · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:04 am Subject:

Some great tips KateB, will definitely bear the tape thing in mind - sounds like something I could have done with when I first started. You've pretty much confirmed the few things that I've heard about the difference in frame and wheel sizes.

Thanks Rick for the pointers, looks like there's a whole host of things to consider, but with adequate people in every direction to speak to if need be. After PeterCs post, it looks like I have the ability to "try before I buy", but at least know where to go.

PeterC, thank you, and it would be great to be able to try out some skates if they fit. Perhaps next weekend (25-26) if that's convenient with yourself (I'm already have visions of ankles snapping)? No doubt that I'll speak to you before then anyway.

I know Hans, but will start exploring those options once I feel that speed skates are right for me.

Thanks again for the advice, a lot to digest, but very informative.

Tom · Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 482 Location: Holland Park

Ed, what size feet do you have?

ed! · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:16 am Subject:

Hi Tom,

unfortunately the answer is not as straight forward as your question. It varies, so I'll be as descriptive as I can:

- Two widish feet
- One foot is slightly bigger than the other (can't remember which...right I think)
- 8.5 UK shoe size, although I usually wear a 9
- 10 UK if wearing Salomon FSKs (fit just about right)
- 10.5 UK if wearing Twisters (although a bit big so I have added insoles, size 9 are too small)

peterc · Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 1284 Location: M3 somewhere

Well, my Bonts may fit, they may not, but feel free to try them.

Tom · Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 482 Location: Holland Park

Shame, too big. Looks like I might have a pair of simmons boots to sell but they are 7.5.

dan_b · Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Posts: 2428

Hans · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:34 am Subject:

My boots are a size 9 for wide feet (which is what i have) and i will bring them to SkateLondon on both days if you want to have a go.